Dude, the proverbial writing is on the proverbial wall… proverbially. St. Petersburg to see its final spring training game Friday after 94 years.
It looks like the Rays are moving their training facilities up to Port Charlotte at the Charlotte County Sports Plex. ‘Cause, you know, Port Charlotte is totally on the map in a way that St. Petersburg can never be. Oh, and having your training take place 90 minutes away from your base, versus 2 minutes, is always more convenient.
As usual, the St. Pete Times asks the tough questions:
Did the Rays only move because they wanted to build a new stadium on the Progress Energy Park site?
Team officials say they never seriously discussed building a new permanent home at the stadium until the deal with Charlotte County was completed. That said, one project may have helped push along the other one.
First off, I’d definitely trust team officials since they are a totally unbiased party to the new stadium. Secondly, just a really lazy first pass search finds groundbreaking in Port Charlotte taking place last August - you may remember that by last August we already had completed plans for the stadium. So yeah, my guess is that you guys knew about the stadium well before the deal with Charlotte County.
Anywho, back to the proverbials - the new stadium is getting built no matter what. People keep trying to make it sound like we will have a say in it, but that’s all bullshit, my guess is that the requisite paperwork was signed ages ago and right now it is just a waiting game. Part of that waiting game just took care of itself with the vacancy of Al Lang.
Also, not sure we’ve linked to this before, but be sure to bookmark Preserve Our Wallets and Waterfronts, an excellent resource on the trouble with a new stadium. Their number one complaint, the cost, is particularly poignant today as the Legislature debates a third round of budget cuts.
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19 Responses
Awesome! Another genius post on our good Christian Ball Team. Casey don’t forget to remind the kids all about our good Christian News Paper ( aka SP Times ) Who has a massive stake in the Rays.
So I spent some time on the POWW site. It gives some accurate info and some not so accurate… but for the most part, the site offers a true account of what could occur.
My big issue with what they’ve outlined is their “Alternative Plan” –
Which their solution is to throw some glitter on shit and call it good.
It’s doesn’t really work that way.
Yes, Casey, The waterfront stadium is a done deal. I’ll admit that I think it’s a good place for the stadium… I think the city can handle and benefit from the increase in traffic.
My problem is with the state of our collective nation. Commercialism is the new Communism. The big corporate fuckers are in bed with Government officials and this means they can do anything and everything.
It’s like the wild west of Corporate America’s history…
Back room dealings between the FED and the INC.
this spells trouble…
It seems that the powers that be have no sense of reverence for the unique history of our city. For instance, Al Lang stadium was home to the likes of Babe Ruth and other famous Yankee players during the boom era of the Roaring 20s; the stadium itself was named after one of the city’s first mayors, the same mayor who said yes to installing all the awesome green benches that used to line Central Avenue. But who cares about that, either?
Or, as Dick Cheney would say, “SO?”
Art.Official, sorry to bust your balls but it has been like this; I.E. Commercialism; for a very long time - hell - as in always. The 80’s did a lot more damage than just increase baby boomer hair loss - it made commercialism as American as Apple Pie.
Now - I make no claims that this is a done deal - I have attended all the community forums to date and there is no majority consensus at this point - just small pockets of people being very loud.
None - the-less, Commercialism is just a way of life - we are a country governed by special interests - even the officials we elect come into office to fight for their own KEY INTERESTS- whether representative of the majority of not.
This message is sponsored by Red Bull - it gives you wings!
Wow… what an amazing ball busting that was..? !
What gave you the impression that I’m unaware of the American legacy of corruption?
and errr..”Commercialism is just a way of life” … is your mind that weak where you just accept it. You surrender so easily. Peapod you’re just another conformist douchebag under the spell of the media. Lay off the redbull… switch to water - it gives you life.
It’s all part of the gentrification and privatization of downtown St. Petersburg, which is becoming a Disney Land-like playground for young urban professionals and retired baby boomers (did I mention white people?) looking for “high culture” and fancy little boutiques in which to spend their infinite hard-earned dollarzzz.
Meet me at the Independent, I just need to stop and get a $35 cigar.
The Independent is for loozerz. Let’s go to to Dan Marino’z! And then to Ooze, or perhaps Schmooze!! Don’t forget your $35 cigar.
When The Independent has Hobgoblin on tap I walk down there every Friday afternoon for a pint or 6.
When they don’t have it on tap I just start my night @ Steve’s earlier.
Art.Official
I am the fucking media, the fucking government, your next door neighbor, your future wife. Being angry at me won’t change the system - or better yet calling me conformist douchebag - won’t change the system or my mind. We all have special interests that we fight for - whether it is environment, education, workforce housing, or Thanx Management night at PUSH - We all support our own agenda, it is what makes us human.
Its not about conforming or accepting - its about the realization that eveyone will not always agree with you and that - if something is that important to you - than take it upon yourself to change it.
I am off to Tampa Bay Watch - Peace!
Yawn… sounds like you’ve got some anger in your heart. ending your hateful rants with “Peace!” only make you seem like more of a douche.
Does anyone know the actually amount in tax dollars the Rays are holding out their caps for? I can’t find it on the city site.
Rabi - I can’t find it anywhere. Maybe we should look in Baker’s wallet.. or Crist’s Pocketbook.
The city of St. Petersburg contributed 123 million dollars to the construction of Tropicana Field in 1986 - 14 years before the time of Mayor Baker. No Tax dollars currently go to the Rays or Tropicana field, in fact, the Rays pay the city for the lease of Tropicana Field bringing in millions of dollars in annual revenue. When the Ray’s came to the Tropicnana in 1998 - it was the county bed tax and a fund based of future sale tax revenue that provided the moneys to renovate the Trop for the Rays.
Actually PEAPOD, your wrong. The city does pay the Rays. . . in uncollected property taxes. The Trop has not been on the tax rolls for 10 years. If we have to fork over tax dollars for the new stadium, the Trop aint gonna disappear on Opening Day. It might take years and a fortune (I hear $80 mill) to demolish it. So, in essence the City will be paying for TWO stadiums at the same time.
That is unless the Rays are not asking for taxpayer dollars for the new shiny, special, magical canvas covered stadium. Seriously, does anyone know the amount the Rays expect taxpayers to throw in?
seriously. I do not think any of that has been made public.
According to Mayor Baker’s own book, “Mangroves to Major League,” the Florida Suncoast Dome (Tropicana) cost a total of $110 million by its opening in 1990 (p. 296).
According to the community forum public records and this is how I undertand it and I could be wrong, but no additional tax dollars are going to go for the new Rays stadium, and yes the Rays do not pay taxes on the property, but if the Trop was demolished, that cost would not be incurred by the city and the debt still owed on the Tropicana is to be payed by the land purchase by whatever company developed it. In addition, the city would regain propery taxes from that land and the taxes accumulated would provide a contibution to building of the new stadium. Hence forth no additional taxes to the citizens.
Now - I am not defending the new stadium, I am really on the fence about it frankly, but I agree with you Rabi that the city does tak a huge loss in property taxes it could be getting on that land - I mean if the city has to pay property tax to the state for it’s own land, why should the Rays be able to get away Scott Free.
Amy - sorry I was off, 123 million was the estimate I remember hearing at a Rays community forum. But all of this stuff can be found with a public records request at the City.
Who knows? Baker’s book could be wrong…
Peapod, you have some good & some bad info. Rabi is closer to the truth. The Trop cost close to $300M, by the time the smoke cleared… read the recent article in the Times.
The new stadium is supposed to cost $450M (good luck!). The Rays say they will “contribute” $150 M… in lieu of rent for 30 years… let me repeat: they will pay NO RENT FOR 30 YEARS!!! So much for their contribution. That leaves $300M for the City to come up with. The best offer so far is $61M (Cantor’s offer of $100M was not in by the RFP deadline and will likely be rejected). That will be paid in phases, so not all of it is available up front. All 3 bidders want the CITY to pay for environmental mitigation (unknown, but could be huge… the area under the Dome and for a 700′ ring around it has never been tested). That site was a gas plant. They also want the CITY to pay for infrastructure and demolition of the Dome. It is likely that any up front money will go to those expenses, and probably will not be enough to cover them.
So, the City will need to go into debt for the entire $300M needed to build the new stadium (possibly more). That is IN ADDITION to the $109M still owing on the old Trop, which will NOT be paid off by the sale of the site. The Rays say the new bonds will will be paid by the future property tax revenues generated by the re-developed Trop site. They want ALL this new revenue committed to THEIR stadium. The amount of new tax revenue estimated to be generated by the bidders is enough to pay those bonds, only if the City can get a 1% interest rate (HA!). Also, how are the loans payments made before completion of the re-development (if it ever really happens); where does that money come from… police, fire, social services?
Some other items: the Rays still have 20 years on their lease; they only pay $1,000,000 a year in rent at the Trop, not even close to what it costs to pay off the existing bonds; the City pays $400,000 (net) a year for police and garbage for Rays games; the Rays have to pay the $109M in bonds, if they break their lease and leave St. Pete; the terms of the lease allow the City to develop the land around the Dome, with the Rays in place, providing they replace the parking that would be lost by developing the acres of parking lots East of Booker Creek.
And, finally, if you were at the last Spring training game yesterday, and you still think the parking and traffic could work with 5 times as many people, I would like to smoke what you’re smoking.
Those are all facts. The lease and other documents are available for you to read at City Hall.
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